[Moon] QSO or not?

Wed May 2 18:09:11 CEST 2007

Hi All, Jimmy, Bernd and Joe in speciffic,

I've read the mailings with intrest, but excuse me to say.. Bernd if you 
made a typing error.. you must have made 2 errors..... All your NC contacts 
contain NO Received report only the one with PE1BTX you received a RO report 
while PE1BTX says he had no good decode and never has send RO

So it seems to that Jimmy had good reasons to assume there was something 
strange going on.....

73! de John PA5MS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jimmyv at hol.gr>
To: <df2zc at gmx.de>
Cc: <moon at moonbounce.info>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Moon] QSO or not?

Dear Bernd

thank you for your reply.
I am glad it was a typing error, as this can happen to anyone.
Now even a mistake in a cw qso, one side thinking it was complete and other 
side
believing it is not, can also very rarely happen under marginal conditions, 
even
to experienced operators.

Have a good travel & 73,
Jimmy SV1BTR

> Dear Jimmy,
>
> It is an honour to me that you think I make no mistakes. However unlike 
> you
> and some others I am not perfect. The answer to the noise you΄re making 
> below
> is rather simple. I made a typing error. This can happen, independant from
> the mode of the QSO or NO-QSO.
>
> I am currently on business travel and will have access to the paper log 
> only
> this weekend when I am back home. I will then correct the log on my 
> website.
>
> I have never ever had problems with decoding single tones messages but 
> every
> little mistake seems to serve as a wonderful platformfoor those interested 
> to
> intrigue against WSJT and DS in particular. BTW I also made a typing error
> with Jan DL9KR΄s 70 cm CW qso which I printed as 10z instead of 11z.
>
> I hope this clarification comes early enough for Peter SM2CEW΄s "The world
> ist a disk"  blog, before he starts using my typing error again as an
> argument against JT65 DS in toto.
>
> Of course if it had been a cw QSO and I had made this typing error, nobody
> would have written an email o the reflector.
>
> 73 Bernd DF2ZC
>
> ----- Ursprόngliche Nachricht -----
>    >Von: "jimmyv at hol.gr"<jimmyv at hol.gr>
>    >Gesendet: 02.05.07 10:19:54
>    >An: "moon at moonbounce.info"<moon at moonbounce.info>,
> "moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net"<moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net>
>    >Betreff: [Moon-net] QSO or not?
>    >
>    >Hello all
>    >
>    >I am trying to understand how JT65 works sometimes (even without Deep
> Search!),
>    >especially when it comes to expeditions. I am confused.
>    >Could you please explain to me how is possible to have a QSO as 
> complete
> in the
>    >log of an expedition, when the station calling them says it is not
> complete?
>    >However, expedition says it has data files for all QSOs. So does the
> station
>    >trying to work them. So where is the error?
>    >This is even more profound because in the case of JT65 it is even more
> difficult
>    >to make a personal judgement mistake. Since software algorithms do the
> decision
>    >making for you and we have been told that reliability of a contact
> remains
>    >intact. Regardless of signal level.
>    >
>    >As i do not question the integrity and experience of operators in the
> specific
>    >expedition (in fact they are experienced operators with good operating
>    >standards), neither do i question the experience and integrity of the
>    >particular station calling them, then is it the JT65 software 
> generating
> the
>    >error? I think, and hope, not.
>    >
>    >Perhaps is it the plain shorthand messages? To me, it looks like this
> being the
>    >reason, because shorthand messages are not accompanied with callsigns
> (unless
>    >the Big exception of someone transferring both reports and callsigns 
> as
> unknown
>    >text). Therefore, using the standard format of shorthand messages, in 
> a
> pileup
>    >situation, one can not be sure if the RO or Rs received was for him or
>    >not...(as logger extract shows below at 5:19)
>    >We have seen situations with other expeditions in the past.
>    >
>    >To substantiate my argument and subsequent confusion with facts, pls 
> find
> below
>    >extracts of ON4KST logger showing PE1BTX saying to ZB2/DH7FB he did 
> not
> have
>    >complete QSO with ZB2 expedition. At the end of this mail, pls see the
> log of
>    >ZB2 expedition where QSO is listed as complete.
>    >
>    >Once more, i will repeat this is nothing personal and NOT aiming the
> operators
>    >involved; the specific case is merely used as another example. But 
> just
>    >scratching my head as to how some QSOs eventually take place and the
> totally
>    >different outcomes reached. Your help in understanding what is 
> happening
> is
>    >appreciated!
>    >
>    >Thanks in advance & 73,
>    >Jimmy SV1BTR
>    >
>    >ON4KST logger:
>    >05:26:40 PE1BTX Gerard 4X12/QRO Frank, but despite my NC congrats on 
> your
> FB
>    >operation, you gave a lot of stations a new DXCC
>    >05:24:05 DH7FB frank gerard, yes in next time we will also do this
>    >05:19:50 PE1BTX Gerard 4X12/QRO Frank, could be, pse look my EME log
>    >http://www.pe1btx.nl/EME%20initials%20all%20bands.htm
>    >05:19:16 DH7FB frank gerard, so the received "ro" came fm another stn
> maybe
>    >05:16:17 PE1BTX Gerard 4X12/QRO Yep, NC for me, but already wkd ZB2IQ
> back in
>    >1983 on ES, and confirmed
>    >05:13:57 PE1BTX Gerard 4X12/QRO Found my QSO complete in the log, but
> never
>    >send RO to him on 21st, so not complete for me, did not even had a 
> decent
> decode
>    >on 21st, very strange
>    >
>    >
>    >PE1BTX Log (bottom of his webpage)
>    >http://www.pe1btx.nl/EME%20initials%20all%20bands.htm
>    >
>    >ZB2 log:
>
>
>http://www.df2zc.de/hamradioresults/seite5/022c0a991e127580c/index.html#022c0a992008a0a01
>    >EME
>    >21.04.2007
>    >1110-1113 PE1BTX O/RO -21 dB C 9
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
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